New system problem

[Lwerewolf]

All right, just assembled my new rig and here's the situation:
Config:
CPU-Q9400(NO OC) (using arctic silver)
MoBo-AsRock p45TurboTwins2000
Video-Sapphire HD4870 512GDDR5
RAM-2x A-data ViTesta 2gb 1066+ DDR-2 Extreme Edition
Sound - Sound blaster audigy SE
HDD- Seagate SATA2/500GB/7200RPM/32
PSU - FSPgroup(a.k.a. Fortron) Epsilon 800W
Case - NZXT Nemesis Elite Black(gotta love it)

Well, I just turn it up and it restarts every 3 seconds or so. No video signal whatsoever. I guessed that it resets since the dvd/rw thing emits that strange startup noise, and because the 4870 runs its startup diagnostics over and over again. I did try removing the video, no luck. Same with the CD-Rom. Any ideas what might be the case?

[ivybat]

Hey werewolf, good specs you got, I have a pretty good idea of what's happening here:

1) Check your motherboard website. Make sure that the 45nm CPU (Q9400) is supported on the stock BIOS supplied by AsRock. I have a feeling it won't be. This means you'll have to borrow someone's CPU, boot up with it and flash to a newer BIOS, then you'll be able to use your new fangled quad.

2) This could very well be a heat problem. Are you still using the stock cooling on this quad? You'll want to change. Most motherboards have a built in reboot function for a failed overclock that resets the BIOS after 3 or 4 tries, it's probably trying to do that, but not making it.

3) Speaking of resetting BIOS, try clearing your CMOS, see if it helps.

Because you're not making it to the BIOS (POST, even), this is almost surely a
1) Motherboard problem
2) CPU problem
3) Heat problem
4) RAM problem

[Lwerewolf]

1st - Thanks a LOT!

1) http://www.asrock.com/mb/cpu.asp?Model=P45TurboTwins2000
You're right here:) I almost thought that I've broken the CPU during installation(I'm a 1st timer)... any way to check whether I've done that? Sry, I'm a bit nervous atm.
2) I bought the quad w/o a box and now I'm using some coolermaster fan... I suppose I'll want to move to some of the flashy ones?(Big Typhoon, etc)
3) I did reset the CMOS, same thing.
About the RAM - I placed each chip separately(in the 1st slot, don't worry) and... same thing.
So I should basically just call a friend with a c2duo and ask him to replace my bios? On it :) Anyways Thanks a LOT again! I thought I broke the CPU or something like that :)

P.S. Any ideas whether the PSU is sufficient? I guess it's way more than that, however I want to be sure it's not it :)

[ivybat]

It's not the PSU. Try the BIOS thing for sure. Let us know if your system doesn't even boot with a Conroe in it, then we'll know something's wrong.

What coolermaster hs/f is it, exactly?

Try putting your RAM in other slots, not slot one. Slot one could also be dead. (this is if the CPU thing doesn't work)

[Lwerewolf]

The FAN is ICT-D925P-GP.
Here is a link to it from my dealer's website(you might not be able to see it):
http://www.mostbg1.com/most/Item.aspx?itemid=35080
I'll have to wait till Monday to try the CPU swap, unfortunately. Are there any other possible reasons that we can check at the moment?

[Retell]

I skimmed quickly through the thread, so this may have been mentioned, is your PCIE power cable plugged into your 4870? I've had similar issues by forgetting to plug this in.

[Lwerewolf]

Both PCI-E cables are plugged in. Thing is, the 4870 does POST, however no display whatsoever appears and it just resets after 3-4 seconds and the endless loop continues.

Here are some quotes for you to read since you won't read the whole thread(I don't blame you :) ):


Hey werewolf, good specs you got, I have a pretty good idea of what's happening here:

1) Check your motherboard website. Make sure that the 45nm CPU (Q9400) is supported on the stock BIOS supplied by AsRock. I have a feeling it won't be. This means you'll have to borrow someone's CPU, boot up with it and flash to a newer BIOS, then you'll be able to use your new fangled quad.
1st - Thanks a LOT!

1) http://www.asrock.com/mb/cpu.asp?Mod...TurboTwins2000 (http://www.asrock.com/mb/cpu.asp?Model=P45TurboTwins2000)
You're right here:) I almost thought that I've broken the CPU during installation(I'm a 1st timer)... any way to check whether I've done that? Sry, I'm a bit nervous atm.


EDIT:
Just noticed that my 4870 has a blue PCB... Has anybody seen such 4870s and is there a chance that it is a fake or something?

[shotgn]

what brand are your 4870's?

edit nvm i saw your brand, i have 2 sapphire 4850's. work fine and a reputable company too, you might want to send an email to them if you havent already done what ivybat suggested

[Lwerewolf]

I've had an x1600pro and I'm currently running an x1950GT(AGP, I'm on the old rig atm) and I haven't had any problems, so I'm pretty much aware how reputable they are, don't worry :) Anyways, thanks!

I'll be able to update the bios on Monday, but I seriously doubt that the video is faulty, I just thought that they might've placed an hd4870 cooler on an older card or something... gonna inspect it now just to be sure. Anyways, it's not the card that's causing the trouble, the comp does the same thing with and without the GPU installed... yet that blue PCB freaks me off... gonna search for some more pics on google.

EDIT: Just made a photo of the ID sticker on the card... says that it's an hd4870 indeed. I'll just live with it ^_^

[ivybat]

never seen a blue ATI card. weird..

anyway keep us in the loop w/ the bios update

[Lwerewolf]

never seen a blue ATI card. weird..

anyway keep us in the loop w/ the bios update

Same thoughts about the PCB... It does have the four LEDs though, and performs its own POST exactly like it's described in a sticky at the Sapphiterech forum. About the bios thing - on Monday I'll get this thing to a friend in order to flash it (I said this a couple of times already :) ). I will keep you updated, don't worry :)
Could you open the link to the FAN model that I'm using? If you did, any thoughts on that?
Also, can I lure out the possibility of a damaged CPU just yet? Sorry for asking this question for the 1st time, just want to be sure.
Another thing - I just found an old JNC case and I'll be trying the system with a speaker attached... you never know if something's gonna pop out.
Anyways, it's 4:41AM here in bulgaria, yet I can't sleep for some reason(submitting some stuff to my deviantart profile), so I'll watch the forums for like an hour more or so. I'll get some better shots of the GFX too.

[ivybat]

LOL 4:41 go to sleep!

The fan looks pretty crummy (I would NEVER run that in a computer of mine), you'll want something like the OCZ Vendetta 2, or the Thermalright TRue (no fan included, gotta buy one), or the Tuniq Tower.

Look into those, see what you think.


I doubt you've hurt your CPU.. doing so basically requires a hammer these days, but it's always a possibility that it was bad. You'll see when you've updated the BIOS (if it doesn't work, but it did with the other guy's CPU, then you know yours is bad)

[Lwerewolf]

LOL 4:41 go to sleep!

Yeah, I know :) Seems like I'm too anxious lately...


The fan looks pretty crummy (I would NEVER run that in a computer of mine), you'll want something like the OCZ Vendetta 2, or the Thermalright TRue (no fan included, gotta buy one), or the Tuniq Tower.

I'm pretty much limited to Thermaltake/Spire/Zalman for new FANs... Any suggestions? I'm still looking for other resellers, but for now, that's it.


Look into those, see what you think.

Err, they look good? :D (In short, I've got no ideas what to think... maybe the copper pipes... I'm a total newbie)


I doubt you've hurt your CPU.. doing so basically requires a hammer these days, but it's always a possibility that it was bad. You'll see when you've updated the BIOS (if it doesn't work, but it did with the other guy's CPU, then you know yours is bad)

Got it under warranty so that should not be a problem... it DID require, however, some force to lock it in place(no cracks and stuff like that heard, everything looked fine), however, putting it into the socket wasn't problematic at all.

EDIT:
Some pics of the video
Link (http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk275/Lwerewolf/DSC00953.jpg)
Link (http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk275/Lwerewolf/DSC00950.jpg)

[ivybat]

Blue PCB SO WEIRD

yeah those coolers are good, if you're limited to those companies, get a zalman 9700 or something to that effect, or get an 8700 if you want to save some space. wouldn't go spire.

but yeah, installing a CPU in a 775 socket takes a little bit of force, don't worry about that one

[Lwerewolf]

I'm just hoping that this blue PCB means an 1gb super-duper edition or smt like that ^_^
Anyways, probably won't clock it, so I might just get the 8700... We'll see.
My friend turned out to be having a break ATM, so I'll have to wait a little longer...

[Lwerewolf]

Offtopic:
Ivybat, check out your post count... ^_^

[Lwerewolf]

FINALLY got the system up and running...
...with a 32-bit Windows :D
Problems don't end here, unfortunately... Frequent BSODs, I can't determine exactly when it happens, however once it happened when I changed the GFX settings of CS:Source(during the change, not in-game and anything like that). I've been running this rig for like 5-6 hours, probably less, right now hunting down the problem. Main suspect is the memory, due to reports of it having problem with my mobo (actually the mobo seems to have problems with ANY kind of hi-perfomance 1066 DDR-II). After the reboot, I immediately ran setup and checked the CPU temps... 49C, I suppose that's not bad for the coolermaster fan... getting a 9700 Zalman tomorrow, though. Guess the CPU ain't the problem either...
The video - I haven't noticed any red lights on it, mainly because I can't see them during the ~1sec time window when it reboots... however so far the memory(MoBo actually) and the video are the suspects. I can post some power supply info if you want. The BSOD is displayed so fast that my CRT can't even focus it until it reboots... I'll be doing some more tests after dinner.
I can post the PSU's specs if that can help resolve the problem...

[ivybat]

right click on my computer and go to advanced and tell it not to automatically reboot on crash, then you'll be able to read the BSOD.

i'm guessing memory, go to another computer and make a MemTest +86 boot CD and test out your memory

[Lwerewolf]

right click on my computer and go to advanced and tell it not to automatically reboot on crash, then you'll be able to read the BSOD.

i'm guessing memory, go to another computer and make a MemTest +86 boot CD and test out your memory

All right, the auto reset is disabled...

Some quotes from Newegg:

Other Thoughts: ok so the problem was 3 things. Memory remapping needs to be enabled for 3+ gigs, and for 1066 DDR2 you need to disable speed spectrum and speed step in the bios.

DDR2 800 works without any changes unless u got 3+ and u need remapping.


Cons: documentation is not helpful. I have yet to make 1066 ram work. Its listed to work with 1066 DDR2 but I cannot for the life of me get it to work without bluescreening. I don't know the settings and the documentation doesn't help. Everything that says 1066 makes it sound as if you are overclocking. I just want to use 1066 Stock speed.

***

Other Thoughts: for 4+ gigs you need to enable memory remapping or it will only see 3.2 gigs and become unstable as well. I RMA'd my first mobo thinking it was broken or something. Anyway this thing works very well with memory at 800 but I really want to learn how to get it to 1066 w/out overclocking. I'm sure its possible, just I need to figure it out.


Cons: Compatibility problem with high performance low latency ram.
Very large Vdroop.
No heatsink on the mosfets.

Other Thoughts: It would not post with my Patriot Low latency 4GB DDR2-6400 kit. I had to go borrow my friend's low performance ram to make the system post. But with the ram problems out of the way, the board lives up to it's expectation, I expected it to...

Looks like this thing really has problems with 1066RAM... Anyways I won't be able to do the memtest on another computer soon... maybe after two days but we'll see.

[Lwerewolf]

All right, tried to crash the system again - played CS:S and after, like 5 minutes, the sound froze(actually it was that repetitive sound that I can't describe) and the screen was just gray/gray-er(for a lack of better words) lines. Restarted, downloaded Rivatuner, set the GPU FAN at 100% (Now THAT's noisy...) and played CS:S for one hour already without a crash... Could it be the video in this case? Going to run a few benchmarks now to see how it handles them...

[ivybat]

Monitor your temps!

[Lwerewolf]

Stop 0x00000050 or PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA

Oh well... looks like I'll be changing the MoBo if the memtests fail...

[Retell]

Did you overclock your ram?

[Lwerewolf]

No, I didn't overclock anything, as I really ain't good at it... plus I don't know if clocking the video will void the warranty and stuff like that(I'm a newb at it). This board appears to be having problems with 1066 low-lat ram... I switched it to 800 and some lower timings, everything is fine now, passed the 1st three levels of Crysis without a crash, then just stopped playing as I had some work to do... did leave the comp on, though, no crash so far.

[RetepNamenots]

Are the memory settings in your BIOS correct? With my motherboard I had to manually set the timings to get the memory running as it should.

[Lwerewolf]

Yes, they are, checked that already. It's just the board...

[Legion]

sorry no useful advice, just wanted to say hard luck, and hope it gets sorted!
i remember how nervous i was making my fist pc :P

good luck from now :)

[ivybat]

Even if they're correct, did you manually enter them? Auto can mess things up. Voltages included

[Lwerewolf]

I'll check that once I get back from school... otherwise they were 2.3v/5.5.....(timings)/1066, now they're 2v/4.4....../800...



sorry no useful advice, just wanted to say hard luck, and hope it gets sorted!
i remember how nervous i was making my fist pc :P

good luck from now :)
Thanks :)

[Lwerewolf]

It looks like this mobo just won't work well with 1066DDR-II, plus the video overheats pretty often w/o the fan speed set at higher levels but then it's like leaving a vacuum cleaner on. Looks like I'll need to change some things...
1st - any ideas for a good HD4870 cooler? I'm limited to Zalman/Arctic at the moment.
2nd - I'm wondering what should I do with the ram - am I taking a big performance hit by making it run at lower timings/speed? I'm mainly using the comp for gaming and 3d graphics(Blender3D). I'm asking you this because I was considering getting a new DDR3-only motherboard and a 2x2GB kit of Corsair XMS3 1800 memory... or simply changing the motherboard to something DDR-II only, therefore screwing myself up if I want to upgrade later(actually I'll check the new reqs for the new intel CPUs...).

P.S. Forgot to ask - does Overdrive's auto-clock function void warranty?

[ivybat]

It looks like this mobo just won't work well with 1066DDR-II, plus the video overheats pretty often w/o the fan speed set at higher levels but then it's like leaving a vacuum cleaner on. Looks like I'll need to change some things...
1st - any ideas for a good HD4870 cooler? I'm limited to Zalman/Arctic at the moment.
Google the radeon fan hack, it's quick and simple and makes the target temperature for your card just a few degrees lower. it gets a little louder, but it will stop overheating and you won't have to put it on 100%


2nd - I'm wondering what should I do with the ram - am I taking a big performance hit by making it run at lower timings/speed? I'm mainly using the comp for gaming and 3d graphics(Blender3D). I'm asking you this because I was considering getting a new DDR3-only motherboard and a 2x2GB kit of Corsair XMS3 1800 memory... or simply changing the motherboard to something DDR-II only, therefore screwing myself up if I want to upgrade later(actually I'll check the new reqs for the new intel CPUs...).
I don't know what your budget looks like, but the Bloomfield (new intel Nehalem CPUs) come on a new socket and work with motherboards which only run DDR3. So, if you're planning on going bloomfield, you'll have to get the new mobo and ram (kits will now be 3x 1GB, 3x 2GB, etc. because of triple channel) and the CPU--which means get some really really cheap ddr2 that will work with your mobo now and upgrade later. slower memory will slow your computer down, but not too dramatically. with things like games and 3d design, it's more about capacity than speed.



P.S. Forgot to ask - does Overdrive's auto-clock function void warranty?
Nope

[Lwerewolf]

All right then, looks like I'll be waiting till like February so that the prices will drop... Should be able to get one around then (plus a new mobo/ram/possibly a second 4870). Thanks for your reply :)

[ivybat]

yeah, so for now, cheap ddr2, ocz has some great deals... check slickdeals.net, usually they've got something going on

[Lwerewolf]

yeah, so for now, cheap ddr2, ocz has some great deals... check slickdeals.net, usually they've got something going on

I'm still using my 1066, I just set it to 800mhz/4/4/4/12 :D

[ivybat]

haha good choice =P